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Post by Picap on May 30, 2020 2:46:40 GMT
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Post by capsbestgirl on May 30, 2020 9:47:41 GMT
Wow, that last episode had my attention 100% through it. Brilliant.
I was afraid that they'd left so much to the final episode that each bit (Patz/the ending of the trial, the Mexico trip and The Ending) would have felt rushed, but it didn't.
I will be watching again at some point!
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Post by Fan on May 30, 2020 17:53:57 GMT
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Post by gwendolynmstacy on May 30, 2020 21:42:59 GMT
Wow, that last episode had my attention 100% through it. Brilliant. I was afraid that they'd left so much to the final episode that each bit (Patz/the ending of the trial, the Mexico trip and The Ending) would have felt rushed, but it didn't. I will be watching again at some point! I’ve left it on as background noise while I do a diamond painting 😂😂
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Post by olivia52 on May 31, 2020 21:44:11 GMT
When everyone has had a chance to watch the final episode, I would love to hear your thoughts?
Were you good with the ending?
Who do you think killed Ben?
I think the entire cast was just amazing. I cannot even say the last time a series captivated this much!
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Post by Bob on Jun 1, 2020 9:21:49 GMT
When everyone has had a chance to watch the final episode, I would love to hear your thoughts? Were you good with the ending? Who do you think killed Ben? I think the entire cast was just amazing. I cannot even say the last time a series captivated this much! I have to admit I was left staring at the screen! I did have a feeling all the way through that we'd never find out for sure if he did it but when that happened it was a tricky moment. But I think it was brave and the right thing to do. To have a tidy ending where everything becomes clear would have been too easy. Who do I think killed Ben? I don't know. With Jacob I suppose I wouldn't have been totally surprised if it had turned out to be him but on the other hand I'm not convinced it actually was him. One of the interesting things shown was how when you shine a light of suspicion on somebody then things they do suddenly can seem more odd than they really are. Many of the things Jacob did where a bit weird but let's be honest he's far from unusual in that. He was definitely a very odd young man but that's not actually a crime. I found myself losing sympathy for Ben's parents - who were also played fantastically well, so many good performances in this series. I always wonder in situations like that why the loved ones don't above all want to know exactly what happened. When they seem more focussed on getting one particular person convicted over actually finding out the truth I start to suspect people's motives. I always wonder in cases like that if people are looking for justice or a scapegoat. But again it's an example of looking at behaviour and drawing conclusions which is clearly skating on very thin ice. Did hearing about Ben being a bully also make them wonder deep down if it was partly their fault? Which leads on to the nature versus nurture aspect. Again it was good at making you think about it without offering any easy answers. I have three people in my life who make me think about this. Someone who had awful parents and a loveless childhood but who is the kindest, most loving person you could meet. So that indicates it doesn't have to be either nature or nurture. You can be who you choose to be. And then I know two siblings who were taken into care from an utterly inadequate and unpleasant woman and adopted and brought up by a couple pretty much like Andy and Laurie. One ended up just like their adoptive parents and the other is actually more like the biological mother, sadly. So to me the jury is out. The acting was stunning from everyone involved. Seriously, there were no weak links in my book. Clearly the main three were superb and they all deserve nominations. This is defintely one of the best things Chris has ever done. But every single character was played amazingly well. The young actors playing Jacob's friends were great too!
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Post by olivia52 on Jun 1, 2020 17:55:42 GMT
I feel very similar to how you described it all Bob. When you said you were left staring at your screen, that is exactly how I felt. I was just numb. I had not read the book but have since searched for how the book ended. Interesting the choices they made in the film version. My family asked me how it ended and I couldn't really answer them. There were so many doors left open and so many issues to resolve but I totally agree that a tidy ending would not have worked. We are programmed to like tidy endings but very few real lives have tidy endings. We will leave that bit of story telling to Hallmark. Does Jacob live? Will Andy ever resent Laurie for her choices? Or does he fully believe her? Where do you pick up the thread of their old life when nothing is really left intact?
I have no idea if Jacob was guilty. Like you said, putting anyone under a microscope makes any behavior odd. He certainly acted like a bullied 14 year old kid. His acting was off the charts. His story was certainly a text book way of how to handle his bullying. Was it an admission of guilt?? Maybe. Was it just a kid trying to empower himself? Possibly.
Yes, Ben's parents became very odd. I think grief changes people into someone they don't even recognize. When a tragedy happens, we are also programmed to find the fault, the reason for our distress. Something to blame, something to hate. It's like finding that conclusion will ease their suffering but of course it never will.
The acting was just phenomenal!! The writing was so honest, the performances so genuine. I forgot completely that it was Lady Mary and Captain America. They were absorbed into these characters.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I love hearing what other experienced.
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Post by gwendolynmstacy on Jun 2, 2020 1:57:20 GMT
Busy and tired (sirens have been going all day as I’m 25-30 mins from the White House so just dropping these off. Apologies if there’s doubles).
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Post by Picap on Jun 2, 2020 3:02:10 GMT
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Post by Bob on Jun 2, 2020 12:37:10 GMT
Imagine how well this would have done if it had been on Netflix.
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Post by Thomasin on Jun 3, 2020 16:12:32 GMT
When everyone has had a chance to watch the final episode, I would love to hear your thoughts? Were you good with the ending? Who do you think killed Ben? I think the entire cast was just amazing. I cannot even say the last time a series captivated this much! I have to admit I was left staring at the screen! I did have a feeling all the way through that we'd never find out for sure if he did it but when that happened it was a tricky moment. But I think it was brave and the right thing to do. To have a tidy ending where everything becomes clear would have been too easy. Who do I think killed Ben? I don't know. With Jacob I suppose I wouldn't have been totally surprised if it had turned out to be him but on the other hand I'm not convinced it actually was him. One of the interesting things shown was how when you shine a light of suspicion on somebody then things they do suddenly can seem more odd than they really are. Many of the things Jacob did where a bit weird but let's be honest he's far from unusual in that. He was definitely a very odd young man but that's not actually a crime.I found myself losing sympathy for Ben's parents - who were also played fantastically well, so many good performances in this series. I always wonder in situations like that why the loved ones don't above all want to know exactly what happened. When they seem more focussed on getting one particular person convicted over actually finding out the truth I start to suspect people's motives. I always wonder in cases like that if people are looking for justice or a scapegoat. But again it's an example of looking at behaviour and drawing conclusions which is clearly skating on very thin ice. Did hearing about Ben being a bully also make them wonder deep down if it was partly their fault? Which leads on to the nature versus nurture aspect. Again it was good at making you think about it without offering any easy answers. I have three people in my life who make me think about this. Someone who had awful parents and a loveless childhood but who is the kindest, most loving person you could meet. So that indicates it doesn't have to be either nature or nurture. You can be who you choose to be. And then I know two siblings who were taken into care from an utterly inadequate and unpleasant woman and adopted and brought up by a couple pretty much like Andy and Laurie. One ended up just like their adoptive parents and the other is actually more like the biological mother, sadly. So to me the jury is out. The acting was stunning from everyone involved. Seriously, there were no weak links in my book. Clearly the main three were superb and they all deserve nominations. This is defintely one of the best things Chris has ever done. But every single character was played amazingly well. The young actors playing Jacob's friends were great too! First bolded part - I agree, and I think Jacob was actually innocent. He was a creepy kid for sure, but I think that's supposed to be the cruel irony of the show: he seems like he'd be the prime suspect, when in reality he's just a weird but harmless dude. His "confession" to Laurie in the car was definitely insincere too; if he was actually guilty then that would have been the time for him to say the truth, not just "whatever you want to hear" said out of sheer terror. My own theory is Jacob overheard Ben getting killed but either didn't recognize his voice or didn't care, and when he found the body a few minutes later, decided to write the story to exorcise his demons and imagine he was the one who got to kill Ben. Creepy yeah, but he clearly hated the guy and imagining he got to have his revenge is better than actual murder lol. If they had kept the girl in Mexico turning up dead like she does in the book, it would be a lot more definite that Jacob was guilty all along since imo the book made that really obvious. I kinda like the show making it ambiguous...it's not necessarily satisfying, but it is a lot more interesting! If Jacob had been guilty all along, to me that's just pretty boring and expected. And I think ultimately, whoever killed Ben doesn't actually matter anyway. It's kinda frustrating for that aspect to be dropped, but since it's a story about the family and not a whodunit, I just assume some random person killed him and the community has to worry about a Michael Myers type being on the loose now lol. Second bolded part - absolutely. His mom spitting in Laurie's face is enough proof for me that he learned how to be a bully from them, and they probably knew deep down it was at least partially their fault the kid turned out to be an asshole to so many of his peers lol.
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Post by Picap on Jun 5, 2020 1:29:19 GMT
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Post by capsbestgirl on Jun 5, 2020 9:08:51 GMT
Very interesting Picap - thanks for this.
I think that just highlights Bob's point that it could (would?) have done better on Netflix. Certainly Netflix & Amazon Prime have a bigger reach than Apple TV+ - certainly the people I've been interacting with on Chris fan groups on Facebook seem to think that you HAVE to have an Apple device to watch the series - which is not true. I don't know if that's on Apple - I can understand why they're not going to advertise that though!
Still, I think it did well and we'll find out in a few weeks if he, or the show, have done enough to earn the much rumoured Emmy nominations.
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Post by Picap on Jun 5, 2020 16:53:54 GMT
Netflix definitely has more reach but it also has a A LOT of product where some really good stuff gets drowned out - especially since they release a season all at once. It would have premiered higher on Netflix but I think the weekly release helped it build an audience and keep it in the conversation longer.
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Post by Bob on Jun 5, 2020 18:31:15 GMT
Netflix definitely has more reach but it also has a A LOT of product where some really good stuff gets drowned out - especially since they release a season all at once. It would have premiered higher on Netflix but I think the weekly release helped it build an audience and keep it in the conversation longer. Good point. 👍
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