|
Post by gwendolynmstacy on Jul 29, 2019 13:36:59 GMT
You're welcome, just happy to help other fans and not hoard things THANK YOU!!! gwendolynmstacy
|
|
|
Post by Bob on Jul 30, 2019 19:34:08 GMT
|
|
|
Post by bethnor on Jul 31, 2019 5:48:06 GMT
well, reviews have been rolling out. kudos to bob for sticking up for chris in the collider interview. though, reading between the lines, i sense the reviewer was grilling chris a bit as a fellow "masshole" (i.e., the criticism is meant somewhat affectionately, if gruffly, one "bahstoner" to another). i actually thought that review was pretty fair, overall. though i'm genuinely curious as to which of his peers chris isn't on a level with.
at any rate, i've not been hopeful about the prospects for this film since it floated in distributor limbo for so long. never a good sign. and when the first trailer hit--not that i know that much more about film than the average viewer--but one of my main criticisms is that it came across as an oceans-13 type caper. so i'm a bit surprised when it actually turns out to be the case. a caper film just isn't the right approach to a movie about ethnic cleansing. i can "see" the pitch now, and why it might have seemed appealing on its face--a cross between argo and oceans 13. i think it's a good example of how things can look good on paper--i mean, they have ben kingsley, though it's true he's been in *lots* of really bad movies--but just not work out when you try to put it on film.
anyway, i'm probably just projecting, but i hope people don't take the critical reception to the movie too hard. evans has come off an insane streak--things are so distorted in the west right now, people forget that if you are paying your bills purely with acting, you are doing better than 99% of people who are in the acting business. so to be either the lead or supporting in eleven movies which have hit the trifecta (critical as well as audience hit, as well as financial, though how well they hit those marks at times wavered) is insane, and quite an accomplishment. on top of that, gifted did modestly well in all three arenas when measured against its budget, IIRC, and even before we go did okay for what it was. he's due for a few critical, audience, and financial bombs. mccounaghy has struggled since his supposed renaissance for example. it's just life in hollywood.
unfortunately, i don't think i'm seeing this movie for quite some time. i just don't watch TV enough to subscribe to these streaming services, and i see on top of that, that these netflix exclusive movies don't really end up on Itunes for quite some time.
|
|
|
Post by capsbestgirl on Jul 31, 2019 11:47:08 GMT
I've just finished watching it.
I enjoyed it - it was gripping but with the right amount of comedy thrown in. Well worth a watch.
Not going to say too much, I'll let it be watched first, not everyone will have had a chance to see it yet.
IMHO Netflix was absolutely the right platform for it. Due to the subject matter alone, I think it was too risky to release to the cinema.
|
|
|
Post by Picap on Jul 31, 2019 15:04:11 GMT
I liked it as well. I had no issue with the tonal shifts. There were light moments but they served as contrast and made it more real (and they did happen in reality), they didn't detract from the serious life and death issues or the suspense. I've seen it compared to Argo but I liked this far more - more interesting characters, better acting, higher stakes, more intricate plan.
The material probably could have benefited some from a 5-6 hour miniseries because it was such a long involved mission and there were some aspects that could have used more fleshing out - namely more on Kebede and how he organized things on his end. It's also obvious some things were cut from the BTS footage and some of the cast. One big drawback about Netflix is we don't get a Blu Ray - so no commentary and no deleted scenes.
|
|
|
Post by gwendolynmstacy on Jul 31, 2019 17:19:12 GMT
The material probably could have benefited some from a 5-6 hour miniseries because it was such a long involved mission and there were some aspects that could have used more fleshing out - namely more on Kebede and how he organized things on his end. It's also obvious some things were cut from the BTS footage and some of the cast. One big drawback about Netflix is we don't get a Blu Ray - so no commentary and no deleted scenes. I didn’t have a chance yet. I want to watch when I actually have time this week however, re: Netflix movies? I did get a foreign (Germany) copy of the Efron!Bundy film on Blu-ray. Sometimes depending on release things they get distributed different ways even if the main method is Netflix at first. I’ll keep an eye out sometimes things pan out in different countries. ETA: just googled. Netflix has rights everywhere except China so eventually maybe imported Blu-ray/dvd?
|
|
|
Post by Bob on Jul 31, 2019 18:34:50 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Tracey on Aug 1, 2019 1:08:47 GMT
I've not seen it yet. But will start watching it tonight. Unfortunately I fall asleep easily while watching movies at home, laying on the couch. I've always been that way. I've seen some good reviews for Chris. Others not so good. Hopefully, he doesn't pay too much attention to any of that. After all, he got the paycheck...just keep on moving. Chris is amazingly talented. His fans love him for who he is. Critics are paid to be negative and critical.
|
|
|
Post by Picap on Aug 1, 2019 2:19:54 GMT
The material probably could have benefited some from a 5-6 hour miniseries because it was such a long involved mission and there were some aspects that could have used more fleshing out - namely more on Kebede and how he organized things on his end. It's also obvious some things were cut from the BTS footage and some of the cast. One big drawback about Netflix is we don't get a Blu Ray - so no commentary and no deleted scenes. I didn’t have a chance yet. I want to watch when I actually have time this week however, re: Netflix movies? I did get a foreign (Germany) copy of the Efron!Bundy film on Blu-ray. Sometimes depending on release things they get distributed different ways even if the main method is Netflix at first. I’ll keep an eye out sometimes things pan out in different countries. ETA: just googled. Netflix has rights everywhere except China so eventually maybe imported Blu-ray/dvd? China barely has an ancillary market and I think what they do have is mainly streaming. I'm not sure I can recall any exported BRs from China.
|
|
|
Post by bethnor on Aug 1, 2019 7:12:12 GMT
I've not seen it yet. But will start watching it tonight. Unfortunately I fall asleep easily while watching movies at home, laying on the couch. I've always been that way. I've seen some good reviews for Chris. Others not so good. Hopefully, he doesn't pay too much attention to any of that. After all, he got the paycheck...just keep on moving. Chris is amazingly talented. His fans love him for who he is. Critics are paid to be negative and critical.
it depends on what the goals are.
from my point of view, if he were to retire tomorrow, it would be with a singular career. i think the "dream" of most "theater nerds" is to originate a character on stage. he's done two of note (cap, and i think most would agree his johnny storm is still the best one!). he's had the most screentime of three out of the four avengers films, each one cracking a billion dollars, and the last now the highest grossing movie of all time. people may forget, but there was a time he was the least favorite avenger. now he's the second most popular, by quite a stretch. people can always find a way to poo-poo that and point out the importance of writing and direction (which *are* very important, make no mistake), but IMHO, are being too strenuous to not give credit where credit is due. (perhaps unwillingly) he helped create the juggernaut that the MCU is nowadays. these films were the "star wars" of this generation, and i think any actor would die to be in his place.
in general, when critics talk about these actors' "post-MCU career" there's a bit of a lack of perspective, IMHO.
now, if the goal is to get an academy award or a golden globe--then yes, he should listen to those critics, and he especially has to if he wants to direct (because marvel, and even feige won't hand over the reigns to a possible billion dollar franchise unless he can keep up the quality), because those are the people he has to impress if he wants those things. and while most critics did not like this movie, i think their harshest criticisms were for the script and direction. mark kermode (the famous british critic) thought that gal gadot was great in wonder woman, but just passable in justice league, and he was quick to qualify his criticism by stating that good direction and writing are critical to a good performance. david ehrlich famously loaths most of the marvel films, and even he thought chris was giving it all to a poor script. the harshest critic on chris i feel was from the collider review, as it specifically fingered him as needing to work on his dramatic skills. but without having any way to confirm it, i am fairly certain this came from a good place of wanting to see chris do better and maybe reach that point where he gets an academy award or golden globe nom. for instance, that review opens with:
i really do think this was written with a sense of pride for the achievements of a fellow "bahstaner" and his criticisms are well meant, and he was speaking as one "masshole" to another.
from my perspective, i think the importance of these awards are hugely overstated. a great performance should make someone feel connected to the character and the story, but often the awards are selected based on whether that performance connected with the individual voter, which is not the same thing. to say that evans didn't make *anyone* connect with steve is self-evidently absurd. as it stands, the academy tends to skew towards certain genres, mainly biopics. it's kind of odd.
ETA: since he was mentioned, i think leo di caprio is a reasonable point of comparison. i mean seriously, he got his huge break in titanic, which is exhibit A about how the empty the title of highest grossing movie is. literally when he was not nominated for his performance in one of the most overrated films of all time, it was a horde of hormonal fans who protested. me personally, i never connected with di caprio as an actor, and other than titanic, i don't think i've seen any of his movies in the theater. i didn't know this, but after titanic, he was nominated for three golden raspberry awards, winning one! yet when he was finally nominated and won an emmy for his performance in the revenant (does anyone even talk about that movie anymore?) everyone (including chris) was acting like di caprio was finally getting his due. huh? don't get me wrong, i like him just fine, but it's for reasons like this that i find statements like "he's not on a level with his peers" absurd.
|
|
|
Post by Bob on Aug 1, 2019 10:10:22 GMT
Watched it all last night. I enjoyed it and it kept my interest till the end but I wouldn't say it's great cinema. A good Netflix film. It was fundamentally important to me that it was a true story because it actually beggars belief. Life is often stranger than fiction. Chris was great, so no surprise there. His charm and humour carried much of the film but the script was average and apart from being obstinate there wasn't much for him to get his acting chops into. But it's a good film and he can be happy with it and his performance. I understand some of the criticism about whitemen rescuing helpless black people but the clue is in the title of the film. It's about the 'hotel' and the Israeli agents. There's another story to be told about the refugees, their origins and the full story of how they actually got to Sudan. But that would have to be for another film or this film would have been twice the length. I'll briefly address the furore in parts of the net over Chris's involvement in this film. My own interest in the Middle East is actually quite deep and I've read widely on it. I find myself both pro- and anti-Israel and pro- and anti-Palestinian Arabs at different times of the day. At times I can feel sympathy for both sides and at others I think 'a curse on both your houses'. It's complex. I have become more aware though how much the anti-zionist side has now been infiltrated by racists. They seem happy to imply that no Jewish story or Jewish perspective should even be told let alone listened to. It's a bit like the Republicans (and to a lesser extent the Conservatives in the UK). You have the core who are genuine and have beliefs that they can logically justify whether you agree or not. However, among them are so many unrepentant racists or just racists who don't fully get why what they're saying is racist that it's become a chore for people on the outside to tell them apart. So it is with the anti-zionist lobby who now seem to have attracted a lot of out and out antisemitic racists. It has always been a valid complaint that if you criticise Israel some pro-Israelis cynically acuse you of anti-semitism. This state of affairs isn't helped by being flooded now with people who genuinely are anti-semitic. I've even had directed at our twitter account, which I've kept out of it, tweets calling for the Jews to be cleared i.e. ethnically cleansed from the Middle East and sent back to their own countries. Sound familiar? To paraphrase what someone said to a GOP senator. "You may not agree with the racists but the racists think you do". It is noticeable how attackers are using the word zionist as an insult and even defenders are pleading that Chris is not a zionist. Well, even zionists don't all agree on the definition of zionism but if we take as a broad brush that it's the idea that Jews have a right to a degree of self-determination in their historic homeland then I presume these people find that idea abhorent. I would be keen to hear from these 'woke' cancellers what their own plan is for the fate of the Jewish population after Israel has been 'cancelled'. Two state solution? In which case they accept the idea of zionism? A joint Arab/Jewish state, which was the original plan for Palestine but rejected by the Arabs? Or an Arab state from which the Jews are to be excluded? They rarely say what their own preferences are. I suspect it's because all but a few haven't got the faintest idea. The other thing is this. I ask forgiveness from my American friends here. Please don't take offence. I'm just trying to make a point. Why do these cancellers hate Israel so much? - It's a land created and peopled by immigrants and their decendents. So is the USA. At least the immigrants in Israel are descendants of people who originated in that part of the world and consider themselves to be returning to their historical homeland. Their history, language, culture and religion predates those of the Arab majority. They did not leave because they fancied a change of scenery. They were expelled and forced to leave although there has always been a small Jewish population in that area who remained. You can deny their right to return but you can't deny this is where the Jewish people came from. That cannot be said for Americans of European descent. Their historical homelands lie an ocean away. - The majority of people who were living there were pushed off their land and are treated as second class citizens. The same in the USA. The fate of Native Americans is not something any American can be proud of. - It is institutionally racist. The USA is hardly a leading light in this respect either. Its history of slavery, segregation and discrimination is a matter of record and is an ongoing problem. - It took land in a war and didn't return it. So did the USA. Mexico lost 50% of its land to the USA in a war and it has never been returned and Hispanics are regarded as aliens there now. - It is the cause of violence and war in the Middle East. The USA (aided and abbetted by its allies) has unleashed an awful lot of chaos and bloodshed right across the Middle East by supporting and arming dictators, waging various wars, deposing dictators and then leaving the void to be filled with murderous factions ... I could go on. Yet these people have been happy to cheer Chris on as Captain America over seven films. No call to cancel him for representing a country with this checkered history but they are now raging against him for making one film sympathetic to one Israeli story because they are so angry about the victims of Israeli aggression. So it's one rule for the USA and another for Israel. You have to in the end question why they are so uniquely angry about the uniquely Jewish state.
|
|
|
Post by gwendolynmstacy on Aug 1, 2019 14:05:40 GMT
I didn’t have a chance yet. I want to watch when I actually have time this week however, re: Netflix movies? I did get a foreign (Germany) copy of the Efron!Bundy film on Blu-ray. Sometimes depending on release things they get distributed different ways even if the main method is Netflix at first. I’ll keep an eye out sometimes things pan out in different countries. ETA: just googled. Netflix has rights everywhere except China so eventually maybe imported Blu-ray/dvd? China barely has an ancillary market and I think what they do have is mainly streaming. I'm not sure I can recall any exported BRs from China. Well, drat, I offered hope and then had it snatched away. Oops at me basically. I plan to get to watching this today. Key being plan to still have some stuff that needs to get done if not it’ll get pushed to the weekend 😩
|
|
|
Post by Picap on Aug 1, 2019 16:51:48 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Picap on Aug 1, 2019 21:48:46 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Tracey on Aug 2, 2019 0:28:41 GMT
I watched it last night. It was a good Netflix movie. I agree with others that Chris owned what he was given to work with. It's a complex tale and I felt heartbroken for the refugees. I'm a social worker by profession. And experienced a heartbreaking event first hand with people trying to live a better life in a different country. I was forever changed by what I experienced. I loved that his team risked so much to help others have a better, safer life. This world needs more love for one another.
|
|